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Poster: SilverApple Date: Apr 6, 2005 3:34am
Forum: etree Subject: RIYL, or, genre of music

Seems to me that the Audio Archive need some kind of organization. Knowing the band name is great, but what if I am looking for blues, or rock, or qawalli?

The CMJ magazine has (or had, it's been a while since I got one) had a heading that told you what kind of music it was, kind of. The RIYL was, Recommend if You Like...

I don't want to have to hunt and peck through every cool sounding band name, or numbers of uploads...

-Apple-

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Poster: Itchin Date: Apr 7, 2005 4:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

A workaround would be to start categorizing bands into some kind of system and if and when the LMA is ready for it smooth the collected data in. Starting a group or a forum to categorize and discuss bands should be simple, though finding a format that will be useful lateron might not be as simple. Just a suggestion.

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Poster: Tyler Date: Apr 7, 2005 5:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

what does everyone think about starting a wiki page for this? "archive.org/audio genres" type thing .. people could go in there, enter their favorite band and just put a few words as for it's sound or genre.. as more and more people go in and add their favorites, the full 1000 artists will eventaully get represented... how do we do a wiki page? (I don't know too much about them).. it could look like this:

Archive.org public user's input on artist genres

Mermen - Surf rock, jammy
Jason Mraz - singer/songwriter, folk
Howie Day - Singer/songwriter, looping pedals
Zwan - rock and roll

you know? and people could add words to each band's line that they think represents it... each contribution makes it more and more descriptive.. then if someone is curious what ____ band sounds like, they could be directed to the off-site wiki page for the genres and see for themselves.. thoughts? I too would love the genres idea but i know it's a lot of code... :(

also the RIYL could also be incorporated.. the first line woutl be artist name - genres... then the second line is: if you like Mermen, you'd like: Surf Coasters, etc.. (and just put bands that are on the archive)..

this seems doable and easy and can be done in a few days and be an ongoing thing.. if no one knows how to do a wiki page, i'll learn myself and post a link in this thread with my limited band knowledge and info..

we should also keep it alphabetical too, a's on top, z's on the bottom...

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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: Apr 7, 2005 6:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

A wiki page wouldn't really lend itself to this kind of huge listing, unfortunately. Like, this page
http://wiki.etree.org/index.php?page=BandAbbreviations
fell into disuse because it was just too labor intensive to keep up- and you have to depend on volunteers for a wiki. (And you have to take measures to keep spammers off nowadays too. :( )

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Poster: Itchin Date: Apr 7, 2005 7:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

Not too familiair with wiki-pages myself, but I could vision a database driven poll-kind-of-thing where registered users can check categories that apply to a band (spacey, jammy, rock and roll, bluegrass, funk, etc.). The registered part might help in delaying trolls and if one can't post text you keep the spammers out. It would be rather nifty to see the results. Imagine: band ___ comes up as 50% rock and roll, 10% blues and 39% random noise and 1% hiphop (with 328 people adding input for that particular band).
Now I wish I could put something like that together myself :-) It does not have to be exactly a part of the LMA and could be administered somewhere else, although it would be easier for 'the user' to keep it all together, even without tying it into the collection.

This post was modified by Itchin on 2005-04-07 14:51:01

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Poster: dgrayshn Date: Apr 6, 2005 4:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

this has been suggested numerous times but the powers that be don't seem interested in changing the current setup to fit this...

also in some instances it would be tough to fit bands in to a certain genre... i suppose we could ask the band themselves...

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Poster: Brad Leblanc Date: Apr 6, 2005 5:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

this has been suggested numerous times but the powers that be don't seem interested in changing the current setup to fit this...

This is not true - the powers that be have not had the resources to give it attention yet, they are a little more interested in stuff like "good backups", "space for expansion", and "new collections".

There's a scale of importance, and stuff like this gets put on the backburner until the fires get put out. Please understand that it has nothing to do with interest, and everything to do with priorities. This request is nice, but it's not preventing users from accessing the collection. It will get attention in time.

I imagine we will see a ton of changes when they migrate us over to the new system using the petaboxes in late summer/early fall.

This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-04-06 12:41:34

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Poster: dgrayshn Date: Apr 6, 2005 6:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

it was only my opinion anyways.. there is no truth to be had ;-)

all im saying is... i heard the same thing at the start of last year when i and other suggested that...

you can say that the site in its current form is working etc... point taken

i can also say that the site in its current form is working but not as clean as it could be... i think a few minor changes could be made and archive would be far more welcoming to new users than it is now... right now it can be rather overwhelming to first time users... or even the "instant gratification" types ...

dont get me wrong now im not trying to knock archive.. i use it everyday... i want it to improve just like you do :-)

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Poster: Brad Leblanc Date: Apr 6, 2005 7:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

I agree on all grounds Matt - you'll never get a dated deadline around here for a new feature. It might be simple, but it can take awhile before it gets assigned to someone.

I'm just a little defensive on behalf of the developers and siteops. Mainly because we have an immense amount of custom code on this corner of the website that the other sections have not had the benefit of. There's an interest in it, "you can beliee that".

I'll be leaning on them for fixes and improvements when they start the migration.

This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-04-06 14:24:09

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Poster: touch heads rule Date: Apr 6, 2005 10:59pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

Good work Brad , definatley keep preserving and protecting and expanding or live music stash job one. One thing patrons could do to help (or I'd find helpful) is if they posted some well thought out lists of jazz bands, bluegrass bands etc. that they are aware of or like on the archive. That's the only way I'll find anything.Not much on the name intuition.

This post was modified by touch heads rule on 2005-04-07 05:59:26

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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: Apr 7, 2005 12:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

For jazz or bluegrass (and I think for reggae), you're in luck! Uses one of those as a search term for the Forums in the box above, and you'll pull up a lot of prior recommendation threads.

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Poster: xtifr Date: Apr 7, 2005 11:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

ditto for funk. :)

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Poster: Agricola Date: Apr 6, 2005 1:18pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

I agree that some statement about the genre of the music would be helpful. There have been many shows I have not downloaded because I didn't have a clue as to what the music was about. After all, there's plenty of stuff here -- more than can be listened to in a lifetime.

I also understand that there may be overriding priorities which force the genre designation issue to the back burner. Those of us who use the archive can help out here by writing reviews. When I do a review, I try to make some statement about the genre of the music, sometimes with more specific comments about style, etc., so that people not familiar with it will have an idea about what they're getting into. Not hard to do.

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Poster: xtifr Date: Apr 6, 2005 9:31pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

I think it's a wonderful idea. On the other hand, I think there's a lot of hard-to-classify bands here, by the very nature of the venue.

Musical genres are really just marketing categories. Bands that don't fit neatly into some pigeonhole invented by some record executive have a hard time finding an audience, because they don't fit neatly into those pigeonholes. So these are the types of bands that need to seek for alternative methods of finding their audience, like, ferexample, allowing tapes of their concerts to be traded. Or hosted on the Archive. :)

I suspect that we'd either have to make the genres too broad, in which case they really wouldn't help all that much (and some bands *still* wouldn't fit cleanly), or we'd have to make many narrow genres, in which case, they're likely to be confusing, and bands *still* wouldn't fit cleanly.

I think trying to classify the bands here would be a monumental task! Adding the infrastructure to specify and display the genres is almost certainly a trivial job beside the task of deciding what genres will be available to pigeonhole the bands, and which pigeonhole(s) each band supposedly fits into.

What about someone like Hank Williams III, who switches genres (and about half his audience) between sets, switching from a sort of outlaw-country with punk overtones to what he calls "ass-jack", a sort of hardcore psychedelic grunge-metal. Do we add "ass-jack" as a genre? :)

Maybe if we gave the bands a couple of lines to describe themselves, rather than trying to force them into ill-fitting pigeonholes? I dunno - I'd definitely like to see *somthing* done to help categorize the music a little, but I'm still not sure what.

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Poster: touch heads rule Date: Apr 6, 2005 10:36pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

Agreed that some bands would be hard to place. For example if the Grateful Dead weren't their own seperate catagory what would you put them in?? Maybe some bands could be in more than one catagory so that people who liked that style of music would find them too. Some bands on LMA are easier to classify and an imperfect system would be better than the guess by the name method were stuck with now.I love bluegrass but have only found some when someone in the know posts some lists.

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Poster: SilverApple Date: Apr 7, 2005 3:52am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

I don't think calssifying bands by genre or type would be that good. Usually the bands I listen to are the ones that crossover the distinctions and borders.

Anyway. That's why I like CMJ's Recommend If You Like, so if you like Grasshopper Pie's rock/blues/jams then you're likely to enjoy ___________ (fill in the blank). And if you like the Rustic Overtones jazz and funk and ska then you are likely to enjoy __________ (fill in the blank).

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Poster: Brad Leblanc Date: Apr 7, 2005 4:06am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: RIYL, or, genre of music

if the Grateful Dead weren't their own seperate catagory what would you put them in??

Oldies?

Just kidding... :) -Bad joke by a youngster

This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-04-07 11:06:46